Protein supplements are a staple in any bodybuilder's supplement arsenal.
Depending upon who you listen to, you'll get different answers for "how much protein" you should consume in order to build muscle.
Bodybuilding magazines and supplement manufacturers tell you you should consume at least "2 grams of protein per pound of body weight" because you need all that protein to recover from your workouts and increase muscle mass.
But are they blowing these dosages way out of proportion?
I mean, supplement companies who promote massive dosages (I've seen up to 5g/lb of body weight!) couldn't POSSIBLY be trying to get you to consume more of their product so you'll go and buy another tub, right?
Fact is, I've caught a LOT of hell over the years from so called "experts" for my statements in my Optimum Anabolics program where I've said that the body CAN'T use more than 20-30g per meal.
Well a recent study looked at just how much protein is "enough" and how much is "too much".
Protein Study: How Much Protein Should You Consume?
A group of highly trained athletes consumed one of five different doses following a bout of resistance exercise.
* Og: The "control" group
* 5g
* 10g
* 20g
* or 40g
Following exercise, ALL groups increased muscle-protein synthesis, but the 20g dose produced nearly DOUBLE the amount of muscle-protein synthesis than the control group!
The 40g dose was even higher, but not by all that much. Therefore, it appears that even after resistance training, your body can only USE so much protein (somewhere between 20g and 40g) and then the rest gets burned up as fuel.
Even in Optimum Anabolics, I recommend way less protein than most people take in (1.17g/lb of LEAN body weight) with about 25% of your daily protein requirement taken IMMEDIATELY after training.
By not consuming "too much" protein, your body can focus on burning FAT for fuel instead of the excess protein which is why OA is considered more of a "build and burn" bodybuilding program.
So stop overdosing on protein, will you?
Consume about 20g in 5 meals throughout the day and add a separate 30-40g serving immediately after your workouts to ensure full muscle-protein synthesis when you need it the most.
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43 comments:
My comments are questions:
Consume 20g ( of protein ) in 5 meals throughout the day OR
Consume 20 g (of protein ) in each of 5 meals throughout the day?
Also
I = 220lbs ( working on it to be 200lbs)
1.17g/lbs = 257.40 g protein/day
30-40 gr after workout leaves roughly 217 gr. Are you suggesting that I eat roughly 43gr of protein during each of 5 meals throughout the day after I workout?
Jeff,
In my opinion, you and your program "rock". I'm following you all the way with Optimum Anabolics.
Thanks,
David
Right on Jeff. i cut my protein in half.I stopped using all that expensive crap protein powders and get most of my protein from meat, chicken, and eggs. cost way less and i feel way better. no more expensive protein bars for me.
Don Shepherd
Now I am very confused. Not good at measurements. 1 scoop = 30g. My trainer stated 2 of these scoops 3 times a day...which is far more than the 20g daily you state above. I am only taking 30g with breakfast, another 60g mid afternoon..and another 60 in the evening. Now I think I am killing myself?
Well Jeff all of it is true. Hats off!
But when one consume lesser protein and I am talking in terms of creating overall caloric deficit for a fat loss program, how can the body focus more on burning fat after heavy resistance training?It will burn muscle first-simply disastrous for fat loss.
So to conserve your muscles its always better to be marginally ahead of 1.17 gm/lbs of Lean body weight. To put it simply most of your calories should come from protein to sustain a steady weight loss. I am doing it pretty successfully so far. 204lbs-182 lbs in 2.5 months.
Correct me if I am wrong.
I understand the science but I'm wondering how I'm supposed to get the rest of my calories. For someone who needs to consume 3300 calories per day, that leaves a ton of carbohydrates and fats to eat. I'm fine with that but it throws the Carbohydrates-Protein-Fat percentages askew when protein is limited. Is this healthy?
I'm pretty sure Jeff is recommending 20g of protien in *EACH* of the 5 meals since he says 1.17g of protien per lb of bodyweight.
I like having my 30-40g of protien after my workout mixed up in a delicious smoothie made from a free recipe book I downloaded at http://www.FreeHealthUpdates.com.
Stephanie,
I agree with your statement about protein intake. I definitely agree that getting your protein from natural food is better than getting it through a shake. Unless its post-workout or when you can't get a complete meal. I try to include other food items to contribute to the overall grams of protein in each meal. I haven't hit the cutting phase yet; but when I do I will probably adjust my protein intake.
Also depends on what kind of protein your consuming. Most protein bars are soy protein which is associated with estrogenic properties, so I wouldn't touch those.
As you know, whey, meats, and casein all digest at different rates, so I don't see how you can say the body can only handle 20-40g of protein at a time. I think it could handle the 40g of whey after a workout and also maybe 20g of casein to provide amino acids for the muscles over an extended period. I'm pretty sure you'd rather have a constant stream of amino acids flowing throughout your blood than have a deficit and have your body break down muscle fibers to compensate. Also the experiment lacked athletes using higher dosages, like 60g lets say.
Also, carbs are used first as energy, then fat, then protein. So either way, if you eat a lot of protein, its not going to be digested and used as energy unless you did not consume any carbs or fats, thus too much protein is not bad, it may be excessive, but rather have an abundance than a shortage.
Thomas, Jeff said 1.17g of lean body mass not full body weight. The difference is that your lean body mass is somewhere between 40-45% of your body weight depending on your body fat %age - so 220 lbs @ say 45% = 99 lbs by 1.17g = 115g per day - perfect for 5 meals at 20g with an extra 15g for you post workout meal.
@Tony - So are you implying that Thomas has a body fat percentage of 55% - 60%? I sure hope you don't meet Thomas in a dark alley. LMAO
Good information, but amounts are unclear.
A person weighing 150lbs with 15% body fat would have a LBW of 128lbs.
that comes to appx. 150 grams of protein per day. appx. 40 grams after workout and 110g for the other meals appx 22g for 5 meals.
Also should any protein from food be subtracted the protein amount calculated using your formula?
Jeff,
I've been following your protein recommendation since I started serious bodybuilding 1.5 years ago. I look and feel great. Your programs are the best. Protein is overrated! PS. You should talk about your protein deprivation theory. That will really stir the s#$t pot amongst the naysayers.
I do not agree with any of this information.If,you train really hard,you need the x-tra protein.In my case,since i just recently upped my protein,i feel i am making much better gains.I follow the ast-max-ot workout and i like what jeff willet and skip lacour have to say about nutrition.Eat big,Get big.Godspeed!
I think you are right on.People need to train harder. You can grow by eating dog food if you put more into your workouts. Muscle is made up of 72percent water. Your protien doesn't need to be exact right down to the gram.Get your lazy butt going and push some iron.....
all i have to say is that i did OA loved it. and doing CTF,with the same kind of results from the proteain theory that jeff had layed out, AND IT WORKS.... YOUR THE MAN...:)
The fact is that the average man should not eat any more than 30-35 grams of protein per meal every 3 hours. The average woman should eat 25 grams per meal, at the most. Any more protein than that will promptly be converted to sugar! When you eat more than that, it truly traumatizes your body by sending your body into a crisis mode because your body doesn't know how to deal with it.
It's much like trying to fit 30 gallons of fuel into a 20 gallon fuel tank. The human stomach is about the size of two fists, so why would you ever want to put any more food in your stomach than that?
The above paragraph is proven both correct and incorrect!
Lyle McDonald (Universities & Medical Communities In France)
There's NOTHING to debate, the idea is stupid as hell! Who gives a fuck what the stomach can hold?
THE LINING AND WALLS OF THE STOMACH WILL EXPAND AND STRETCH THEN ADAPT AND ADJUST. Anyone who doesn't know anything this basic with a degree in nutrition is too retarded or misinformed! Because a fuel tank is man made and can not adapt and adjust the human body and system are designed to adapt and adjust.
Bryan Haycock MS, CSCS
You can consume as much protein at one sitting as you like. There is no magic number above which the protein becomes indigestible. Eating more simply slows gastric emptying. The same percentage of protein will still be assimilated whether it be 80% of 20 grams or 80% of 300 grams or more. Consume 80% of all protein requirement
all at once preferably 1 hour pre-workout, the first day 100% turns to sugar, the second day 70% turns
to sugar, the third day 40% turns to sugar and the fourth day 80% will be assimilated due to the fact the lining and walls of the stomach expand and stretch then adapt and adjust.
I would suggest you get Lyle's latest book on protein.
www.bodyrecomposition.com/the-protein-book
I get nothing from the sales of that book by the way.
www.hypertrophyspecific.com/hsn_artcls_proteinmyths_2.html
www.thinkmuscle.com/articles/haycock/protein-pulse-feeding.htm
Protein is not what build,
develop or expand muscle tissue
instead it's the nitrogen retention, nitrogen retaining
capacity or net nitrogen utilization the protein generates
which induces muscle gains.
What if people consumed zero protein yet generated the nitrogen retention, nitrogen retaining
capacity or net nitrogen utilization of 1000 grams of
protein which is possible,
guess what? They would build,
develop or expand endless muscle as
a wild menace.
By the way when from actual food
is fully cook the protein is
inactive such as:
Pork
(Cooked well enough to destroy
the cyst to inhibit countless
new lives within the liver, blood,
fat cells, muscle cells and brain)
All Poultry
(Cooked well enough to destroy
salmonella)
Seafood
(Cooked well enough to destroy
salmonella)
All other standard red meats
can be eaten raw or medium rare
such as:
Beef (First cousin to buffalo)
Beefalo (Cattle & Buffalo mix)
Buffalo (First cousin to cattle)
Lamb
Antelope
Elk
Deer
The last paragraph makes me wonder; Does that recommendation is for all? Doesn't it matter whether I'm a 135lb hardgainer, or a 230lb pro. bodybuilder? I need more clarification on that part.
jeff..ur new program is off the hook!!!and what u said about protein..lol im glad i dont have to chokle down 300 gs of damn protein now...thanks for the "trurth" good lookin out man..
Protein powders is how the supplement companies get rich. Flex magazine as well as others say you need 2g of protein per pound of body weight--so if you weigh 200lbs that means you need to consume 400g of protein; hogwash.I used to drink protein drinks for several years but stopped because it was too expensive and didn't do much for me. I've been off protein drinks for about a year and a half and I am bigger and more cut than I have ever been. Don't get me wrong, protein is very important and is necessary but it is only one of the things needed.
Guys 100g of protein a day is way too much. Avereage man dont need more that 56g a day and women 45g/d
YOU need to remmemebr that the bigest nutritional study - THe china study- showed that the higher the intake of protein the higher the incidence of diseases and cancer.
SOme raw fooder able to grow muscles eating fruits and veg on 30g of protein per day. I.e dr. doug graham.
http://foodnsport.com/
Also suggest to watch some of his videos
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=dr.+doug+graham&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-GB:official&client=firefox-a
I hate to point out the obvious, but this formula is absolutely no different from the 1g/1lb formula that most body builders recommend. An AVERAGE man will have a bodyfat percent of around 15-18% (though we all fantasise about less).
Take a 200lb example with 15% bodyfat. He has a LBM of 170lbs.
170 x 1.17 = 199g Protein
Now work out 1g per 1lb of Total body weight.
200 x 1 = 200g Protein
And to be fair, I subscribe to Flex for motivation and its very rare that i've ever seen them recommend 2g per 1lb as a Protein formula. They generally recommend 1g, maybe 1.5g for really intense training. (And for the record, i'm 220lb - 14% BF (and dropping) and I eat around 1.25g per 1lb)
Does anyone else see the mistakes made here?
The study says that 40 grams of protein after exercise increases muscle-protein synthesis even more than 20 grams...
How can you conclude than that the maximum amount is between 20 and 40 when in fact it is at or even above 40 grams? Around 30 grams may well be the most economical, but it is deffinately not the maximum when only muscle protein synthesis is involved.
There are also some other problems: It is not clear what and how often the trainees ate troughout the day. Were they starving before or had they breakfast at mcDonalds? Wat kind of exercise program did they do? How big were the groups used? It all matters, but it was not included in the article. Which is a shame.
I don't argee or disargee with your protein intake suggestions, but this is not the way to make your point.
It would be great if Jeff commented. Maybe in my haste I didn't see his comments, but the firs guy had valid questions, but no apparent answers.
To me, it seems that we're getting conflicting advice in this single blog post:
Eat 1.17g/pound of lean mass OR 20 grams per meal, 5 times a day plus 20-40g after working out.
So, which is it?
Jeff, I love your programs but this is ridiculous. You simply cannot say "20g per meal" or "80g per meal". You're trying to tell me that you're going to prescribe the same protein intake for a 220 lb, 6ft 4in guy as you would a 165lb, 5ft 9in guy. What am I missing? Thomas, your calculations are a perfect example. It just doesn't add up. Everybody is different based on height/weight, genetics, fitness goals, sex, etc. To make a blanket statement such as "20g per day" is just plain wrong. I heard of a new program coming out that fully customizes your intake based on the criteria above...I have seen people that were on it and it's amazing. Should be on the web soon. Anyway.....
Avoid Mega-dosing on Protein.
The last 30 years of media bombardment has succeeded in convincing that more protein is better despite the overwhelming
scientific evidence illustrating that the body requires only 50-100 grams per day
or 0.9 grams x goal weight plus 14 grams of protein.
All the largest and strongest animals in the animal kingdom eat
"live plant based proteins" as opposed to whey proteins,
which are pitched mercilessly at society although gorillas eat some meat.
The mega-dose advocates theories go against over 4 billion years of evolution.
Protein itself is beneficial, but the amino acids within are what muscles require to accelerate
protein synthesis
(muscle growth/repair).
With this knowledge always make it a top priority to determine how well different protein sources are utilized by the body.
For example, some manufacturing processes of protein powders, cooking of foods and the digestive process all get in the way of amino acid muscle cell utilization.
How much protein would be ideal for gaining maximum lean muscle and to my surprise he said 3 even up to 4 grams per pound. This would be 600 to 800 grams for a 200pound man!
As we all know, people can’t spend all day preparing food day after day; placing limits on how much food can be consumed. Therefore a supplemental source of protein must be consumed to complement food intake.
Muscle Gain:
Calories in my view do not induce any muscle development whatsoever and whoever thought this up did this as marketing hype to promote mega calorie powders, stating nonsense such as your weight x 20 = the amount of calories required daily during a bulking phase.
Different sources preach nonsense and say 1.5 to 4 grams of protein per pound of muscle weight
or goal muscle weight then 50% of the diet be starchy carbohydrates then 10% simple carbohydrates.
I say hell no! Net Nitrogen Utilization (Nitrogen Retaining Capacity) and sparing glycogen
induces muscle development among water, protein, amino acids, adenosine triphosphate (ATP),
creatine, nitrogen, oxygen, certain vitamins, certain minerals and 1 carbohydrate.
Human muscle tissue is not made of starchy or simple carbohydrate molecules.
JAJAJAJA.... This guy is talking shit that's why he is so skiny. You need to go and study Sport Nutrition before you open your mouth, then learn how to train like a real bodybuilder not like a mediocre with push up and pull ups with bodyweight only, after that stop ripping off people! GO TO COLLEGE OR BETTER YET UNIVERSITY AND GET SOME EDUCATION, SO YOU STOP BEEN AN IGNORANTE!
Talk about being an "ignorante."
I think that the last commenter shows who needs the education...
As a physician (I really am, I'm not just making this up), and a longtime lifter, I can say that what Jeff is saying is good stuff. I've tried all the other things, and too much protein powder doesn't do the job- it just makes you fat. Too little protein and you will not get results either. It takes good nutrition (not pounding down tons of food) and good training to be successful. And don't forget- just because your method worked for you or someone you heard about once in the locker room, doesn't mean that it is the truth.
One aspect of excessive protein consumption that hasn't been mentioned is the effect on your kidneys. Once you exceed the amount of protein your body can use, the rest is flushed out through your kidneys. Excessive protein intake works your kidneys especially hard and can ultimately lead to decreased kidney function. If you've ever felt particularly tired after a day or two of especially high protein intake, it may be a result of kidney load.
Every individual has a potentially different level of protein synthesis, so there's no magic number that applies to everyone. You have to experiment and find the amount that's optimal for you. Just keep that old, tired saying in mind-- too much of a good thing is stil too much.
Weird, my OA book wrote 1.14g per pound of lean mass. Why is everyone here saying 1.17g? Is there something wrong with my OA book?
Jeff, good post and sure to stir up some debate.
Seems like everyone is too caught up in some "exact number" for amount of protein that is best.
I agree that I think many traditional protein recommendations that most people have read are regurgitated from Muscle mags that sell supplements, and hence they want you to use them up faster to buy more supps.
Instead of arguing over thousands of flawed studies in the past, I think the easiest way to determine what's best for you is to test yourself...
For example, several years ago, I decided I pretty much had enough of the supps and went supplement-free. So now that I was not buying mega-tubs of protein powders each month, did my muscle mass radically disappear? Hell no!
In fact, I'm in better shape than ever now and I no longer waste all sorts of money each month on protein powders at all anymore... just get all of my quality proteins from REAL foods... whole eggs, grass-fed meats, raw grass-fed milk, yogurt, and just good quality nutrition overall.
Folks, Jeff is concluding that the optimal protein dose is around 30g because, while better results were seen with 40g than 20g, they weren't double the results of 20g. So his theory (unproven) is that somewhere inbetween 20 and 40, the extra protein ceased to provide increased results. While it could be that 40+ will get you better results with the degree of improvement getting smaller as you advance, Jeff's theory is AT LEAST as valid. Actually, with what we know about the rate the body can absorb protein, I'd say it is the most likely answer.
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I weigh 150g and I consume 150g protein a day..And I lift medium to heave, my body is buff (not huge) and I have great muscle mass. That out of the way...
Whoever said it MATTERS how much protein your body consumes in one serving is a newb and fearful person. Your body will consume and use ALL of the protein (mostly) it will just take longer to digest. I am building mass, and I am not losing protein by drinking a 70g shake. That's proof enough for me..if science says your body doesn't consume all the protein you take in 1 serving , over time, then I don't believe in science, I believe in keep doing what I'm doing and ignoring the rest
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